That’s how SLATTERY Design partners Amy and Sean Slattery see inequality in the world of architecture. They join the Small Business Miracles Podcast this week to celebrate being named one of Kansas City’s Top 10 Small Businesses, and also talk about other terms that are core to who they are: stewardship and collaboration. Later, they turn the tables and ask about the future of social media. Listen in!
Transcript:
Jeff:
Let’s bring in from Slattery Design, Amy Slattery and Sean Slattery, partners at Slattery Design. Welcome to the show.
Amy:
Hello. Thank you.
Sean:
Thanks for having us.
Jeff:
We’re happy to have you here. And I’m going to start out with just the congratulations on being chosen as one of the top 10 small businesses in Kansas City. Congratulations on that.
Amy:
Yeah, thanks. We’re excited to be included amongst all of the greatest people together.
Jeff:
And that is great. Let’s start with just for those people who don’t know anything about what you do, what the firm does. How would you describe that? What would you say you do here?
Sean:
So Slattery Architecture and Design is really based here in Kansas City, primarily in the region. We’re a full-service architecture firm focused on serving clients of all scales, but primarily owner-driven and vision-driven organizations here in the region.
So a lot of our work is with the city of Kansas City, Missouri, but also with nonprofits and also some university clients. We also have a focus in housing that is both in the city and also in rural communities.
Jeff:
Outstanding. And how long have we been around? Do you do a definition around that?
Amy:
We just celebrated 10 years.
Jeff:
10 years. Perfect. Well, again, happy anniversary.
One of the things that I’ve heard you guys say to describe yourselves is equitable. More people should be able to use the skill that an architect brings to the table. One of the quotes that I got from you was, we shouldn’t be a luxury, we’re a necessity. Can you describe that problem of inequality in architecture and kind of what that looks like?
Sean:
Yeah, this is a particular thesis of the firm, you know, and Amy and I like to tackle this very directly. Historically, architecture firms are categorized as either high design or service-oriented, and that’s a choice we find too simplistic and resist.
And so our firm attempts to provide both and. That’s kind of a mantra, this both and. And it’s how do we provide design excellence for all projects, particularly for communities that normally don’t receive such attention.
And we find a lot of enthusiasm and passion and motivation in that. And we see the results sort of reciprocated back to us so that the individuals we get to work with bring such joy to the process that it feels like the thesis so far is proving to be true.
Jeff:
Right. And the joy isn’t just like, wow, I got to work with an architect. Like, what are those tangible things that you get because you were able to do that? Like, you’re getting the space that is actually functional, right? How do you describe those benefits?
Sean:
Yeah, I think that to get to work with an architect, you know, that’s probably not where the joy is coming from. You say that. Because it can be a complicated process and it can be a difficult process. And a lot of our non-profit clients and even some of the housing projects, these are the once-in-a-generation moonshots for some of these projects and these clients.
So it’s finding design results that are pleasantly surprising, finding design results that speak to the mission and the individuals who utilize the spaces very directly. We talk about design with instead of design for. So when you design with, you receive input and ideas from individuals who are living a very different experience from us that sometimes can bring such pleasant surprise again to a project. And pleasant surprise, I think, is one of the main goals that we search for.
Amy:
I think it’s also for us and for our team to know that what we do daily impacts lives. And we like to work with clients who also have a shared vision for impact, whether that’s community service or quality work within our cities and communities or in, again, supporting various underserved communities and needs.
People come to us when they need to grow, right? When they need something different or they need to change or maybe they need to even shrink and rethink what their organization needs in terms of space. And it can be a intense process, sometimes a stressful process that people don’t know a lot about that really impacts their organizations.
And it’s exciting for us to learn about these organizations, to get to kind of work alongside them, to see where they could grow and envision their future and how space can impact and support those needs in that.
Jeff:
Listening to the client, giving them the solution that they don’t know to ask for, don’t know to even kind of describe, but you’re hearing all of those things.
Amy:
Yeah, sometimes the solution isn’t a space. Sometimes it’s a rethinking of space or a relocation or a new strategy. And that’s where we have opportunities to explore both architecture solutions and also to refer to other collaborators in the city, whether that’s strategic planning or other collaborations that could help support various missions.
Sean:
Sometimes you can gently push against assumptions or variables that people assumed were fixed, and you just ask some big what-ifs, again, together with a client, and these aha moments emerge that are really satisfying and can propel a project forward with a lot of enthusiasm.
Jeff:
We feel that same thing in the marketing world. When you have that moment when the client sees it, gets it, and goes, oh, you answered that question I didn’t even know to ask. Thank you so much for that.
Sean:
Exactly. Very rewarding work.
Jeff:
Yeah, it’s fun. Let me ask about the word stewardship because I know that stewardship in your world is kind of a – it’s packed with a lot of different meanings. It goes into mentoring young architects, working with design students. You do a lot of that and giving back and helping prepare the next generation. But it’s even about compensation. So when you when you what what does that word stewardship mean to you?
Sean:
Yeah. And all those factors are true. You know, we do take each of those very seriously. And, you know, Amy and I both have grown in this architectural community and have a lot of positive mentorship and that we’ve received and so we do feel a mission to pay that forward to young staff that we get an opportunity to mentor and and to and to understand whether it’s the life work balance or pay equity and those things but the stewardship also applies to the projects themselves very directly and again you know these mission-oriented clients.
Once in a generation moonshot, every dollar spent has to accomplish a lot of different things. And these individuals have board members they have to answer to, donors they have to answer to, community members who are maybe receiving the outcome of the mission that they also feel compelled to answer to.
And so we like to search for – we use stewardship as a mindset that we search for – design solutions that can accomplish more than one thing and almost kind of squeezing every bit of juice out of that lemon you can.
And that’s part of the fun, honestly, part of the challenge. It’s not about creating something grand. It’s about creating something concise and clear and the beauty emerges from that.
I think as architects, we have a responsibility to be stewards of the built environment and to work on behalf of our clients and communities in that way. So that’s how we use the term stewardship.
Amy:
The issues that you were bringing up is more about the profession and the industry of architecture, engineering, construction, AEC. And we see that more as leading and shifting and testing ideas and how we form and establish and continue to operate our architectural practice.
It’s one of the reasons. We started. It’s one of the reasons we are partners together is we’ve come from really great firms in Kansas City. Kansas City is the home of incredible global design architects, right? So there’s a legacy here, and we are part of that legacy.
But we also are questioning and searching for ways to improve the way that we do architecture, the way that we lead our staff, and the lives that we can lead while doing great work.
As you know, in a consultancy, we are consulting and guiding our clients. And that oftentimes means deadlines, right? That means late nights, sometimes going that extra mile. And there’s got to be a balance to that and how we serve our clients with incredible, important work and balance our daily lives.
And so to that idea of shifting the industry, we are constantly looking for new ways of pay of benefits of maternity and paternity leave even at a small scale and then also what we provide in terms of professional development and opportunities to serve so that is fundamentally why we work for the clients we work with and that’s how we select and attract talent is people who also care and want to contribute to our community in the way that we do.
Jeff:
And I’ll pivot off of the word community because in the announcement, when you acknowledged that you were a top 10 small business, collaboration was a word that was immediately part of that post. And I know that when we write those kinds of posts, collaboration is always a word that you tend to use.
But it seemed like you were really hanging your hat on collaboration as a very concept. And even in the, you did a top 10 panel of CEOs where you’re discussing everything. And one of the first things you did was acknowledge everyone else on the stage.
And I just, I’m struck by that, but I also kind of want to hear what that term means to you and how that is so integral into the way you operate.
Amy:
Well, we don’t get to success without each other, right? Nobody is really truly on their own. Whether you’re a sole proprietor or a practice or a large organization, we are built from the bottom up by everybody who has supported us.
And I think this city, this entrepreneurial Kansas City community built from the Kauffman and Mr. K’s legacy on up to where everybody is now. is foundational for that. I really think that there’s so many firms and companies here who have been built on that legacy.
The other side of collaboration is what we do is architecture. And we do not do that on our own, right? We work with engineers, we work for our clients, you know, these are not our buildings, really, they are our clients investment, and we are stewards of that investment. And we serve that investment.
But we collaborate with and serve with our clients, but also with all the engineers that really we orchestrate to make something beautiful with. And then we have to work in the field with our contractors to make sure that the design intent is carried through on time and on budget, hopefully, right?
So it takes all of us. And from the beginning, it takes community engagement. Ideally, it takes working with our city officials to make sure they understand what we’re proposing for certain sites.
And architecture is public. You know, everything, even a private residence impacts the street it’s on. And so it takes a community to make great cities and great architecture.
Jeff:
So much responsibility as being part of that team as well.
Amy:
And we love it. I think that’s what we love about it. And that’s what’s great about the city is we’ve got great collaborators at all levels.
Jeff:
Outstanding. Well, I have one last question in our regular session. And that really is just the what’s next. Where do you go from here? What is the vision? Is it more collaboration with everyone? Is it more collaboration in multiple cities around the world?
Amy:
You want to take that one?
Sean:
Yeah, we are on the cusp of some exciting outcomes. We have a lot of projects that are reaching the end of some conceptual design stages, and they’re in the midst of really positive fundraising efforts.
And we wholly believe in the next two to three years a lot of new work was going to be starting emerging coming out of the ground and you know that is a testament again to all the hard work and the collaboration that has happened in the past and you know these projects take a lot of time and a lot of energy and even before the first shovels in the ground you know as there’s you know years of collaboration.
And so a lot of the fruits of that labor, and I don’t want to say our labor, it’s everybody’s labor involved, is about to emerge here shortly. So that’s a big thing we’re excited for the next few years.
Amy:
Yeah, I think getting vertical on some projects is our short-term horizon, long-term, I think we’ll continue to serve in this region and continue to look for opportunities to grow. And that’s through shared leadership and continued service throughout the region.
So we’re excited to stay kind of mid-coast. We love our Kansas City roots. And if there’s opportunities to export what’s great about what we can do here, we’re open to go national. But it’s not something we’re necessarily strategically pursuing. It’s an opportunity that some clients may take us there and we’ll continue to serve.
Jeff:
That takes us out of the regular round of questions and into the lightning round, if you’re ready for the lightning round. You have no way to know what kind of questions it could be.
My first question in the lightning round is really about those projects that get finished. Let’s imagine something is finally done. People are moving in. It’s all complete. Do you celebrate and how do you celebrate that accomplishment?
Amy:
I’d say the first thing is that ribbon cutting, right? With a client and the community. That’s always the most fun.
Jeff:
That’s the most fun part. That’s very public.
Amy:
It is very public.
Jeff:
You’re still on at that point, right? You’re still on stage. What do you do after the doors close when you’re back home, it’s done, finished?
Sean:
Yeah, there’s, you know, might share a little glass of wine or a bourbon, a little toast between the two of us and with the team. as, as tried as it might sound the following Monday or back at it, because the one that just had the ribbon cutting, there’s six more that, you know, have deadlines looming and, and, you know, keep the sleeves rolled up.
Jeff:
Keep it going. Yeah. It’s, it’s always fascinating to ask the entrepreneurs because about 50, 50, you know, glass of wine and that’s all I need. Or, you know, I, we take a trip immediately after whatever that is. And the other half. We don’t take time to celebrate. No, there’s a billion other things going on. Oh, you can’t celebrate. I was curious which camp you fell into.
Amy:
You have to because of the years it takes to get some of these projects across the line. Yeah, it’s huge. And you want to stay in touch with these clients because we sometimes move on. And so we maintain those relationships.
We try to follow up and stay in touch at least on an annual basis and see how things are going because you never know. Honestly, it’s a good business strategy from a marketing standpoint. You never know where the referral might come from.
And you also want to make sure that they’re happy with what they’re living in and what they’re working in now. But, yeah, we definitely celebrate and then wake up the next morning back at it.
Jeff:
And then you’re back at it again. You can’t celebrate too long. All right. Next question is really about I know you have a love for travel. I always ask a food question on this podcast. Um, and, and the question I’ll ask is, is really about coming back to Kansas city. You’ve been away for a while. Uh, it could be a week, could be a couple of weeks, whatever, whatever it is you do. Uh, and when you get back here, what is it? What food thing is it that you have to have? Is that a meal that you cook? Is it a, we have to go to this restaurant for this style of food? Where, where, what is it that, that you have to have?
Amy:
Oh gosh, we have so many favorites actually. So, my current go-to is the Old Square cocktail at Rye.
Jeff:
Oh, okay.
Amy:
So, if you haven’t had it, you’ve got to have it. It’s the best cocktail in town.
Jeff:
Now on a list.
Amy:
You’re welcome, Rye. Thank you. But you have to have it. And then, honestly, fries and a glass of champagne at Aix-Soie. Fascinating. It’s the best. It’s the afternoon, like today, 4 o’clock. It’s the best thing.
Sean:
Yeah, it’s a testament to Kansas City. It’s pound for pound. Our food scene, we can hang with any city in this country. Oh, for sure. We might not have 15 award-winning of whatever restaurant, but we’ve got a good example of nearly everything here.
And so it’s fun to support other entrepreneurs in that way. And the entire art scene, the design scene, marketing, architecture, all of it. Like Kansas City, really. there’s something in the water here. So yeah, we’re yours. We love travel, but we’re happy to come home when you come home.
Jeff:
Yeah. And, and it’s always, is it, is it always those, those kinds of choices or, or is it a man, if we’ve been traveling and I’ve been in Belgium eating fries forever, it has to be barbecue or do you not, not one of those kinds of things.
Sean:
Oh man. Well, I mean, no, there’s not like a specific, I would say. We’re both omnivores. Yeah. I mean, again, it’s kind of like the current thing that’s on the top of mind.
Amy:
I will say our office is above where we used to have plate.
Jeff:
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy:
And we miss you, but love going down still to the Leawood location. And again, great cocktails and whatever their arancini is. They always do a different seasonal arancini. That’s a definite good thing.
Sean:
And Amy’s being humble, but she makes a mighty good pizza.
Amy:
Yeah, I do. Pretty good.
Jeff:
We can talk about the pizza. Is it a particular style? Are you a Detroit Park kind of person?
Amy:
Oh, no, no. You’ve got to grill it. I’m a grilled pizza.
Jeff:
Grilled pizza kind of person.
Amy:
Yeah, it’s as close as I can get to having, you know, like an actual Tuscan with fire. A 900 degree.
Jeff:
Yeah, exactly. We’re there. I got you. Let me move on to you’re a soccer family. Season tickets to the KC Current. Can you give me just a little bit of background on what is it about the soccer family? Have you played, coached? Where do you get the love for soccer?
Amy:
I’m the only one that does not play. And I did not know when we got married that soccer was going to be so important to our lives. But it’s been awesome. I’m the fan. I’m the loudest one that’s always hoarse at the end of any game. But Sean was coaching kids before we met.
Sean:
Yeah, I played growing up and through high school and club and college, but I was a mediocre player, honestly. But knew enough about the game to know what it ought to look like.
Jeff:
Sure.
Sean:
Just couldn’t physically do it myself all the time. But just fell in love with it as a kid. I love the pageantry. I love how cultural identity is reflected through it. In the 80s, it was kind of mysterious and different.
Jeff:
Brand new.
Sean:
Right, exactly. And then, yeah, coaching kids is a great way to give back to community and hanging out with a lot of great kids and seeing our own two children pass me up in skill pretty quickly, frankly.
So it’s fun. And then seeing the KC Current, Sporting KC in its heyday. Again, another Kansas City as a community just really bringing it.
Jeff:
I agree completely. I resonate with that. I was a mediocre player. I played in all of the same kind of things you did, it sounds like. I also was a coach, and I feel like I was a good coach. I feel like that. There are going to be people listening who will disagree. I was also a ref for like a hot minute. Oh, you’re a brave soul.
As a transition job in between college and look, you can’t just keep working at the grocery store while you go to school. You need to transition into a different one. Let’s do this temporary thing and was a ref for a season. And I was a terrible ref. You don’t want to be a ref. Like it’s a horrible, horrible job. It’s a hard job. And at the end of the day, like half the people in the crowd hate you. Right. Like this is, I need a higher approval rating than that.
So let me do some follow-up questions on soccer then, because it is a World Cup year. We famously have, you know, we’re going to host some games. Do you have a team that you support that is a national team?
Sean:
Oh, I mean, you know, the U.S. soccer, of course, it’s the rare occurrence where we’re an underdog. And I think that makes me love it even more, honestly. And just getting behind men and the women’s team as well.
You know, we’re a little disappointed the Irish didn’t make it. Our own heritage is rooted in that. But also just really looking forward to, we’re going to attend some fan fests and just experience some of the culture directly.
Jeff:
Do the experience, yeah.
Sean:
Yeah, I hope we get to meet 30,000 Dutch fans or whatever it might be.
Jeff:
I could be one of those Dutch fans. Nice, yes. Definitely.
Sean:
Yeah, you look an orange, I bet.
Jeff:
I definitely have the, I have more than one orange jersey. Yes. We can do that.
If you could see one player play from back in the day. Who would that player be?
Amy:
Oh, my.
Jeff:
Do you have any favorites?
Amy:
I am not a name dropper. Not a name dropper? Yeah, Sean’s got it.
Sean:
We’ve got to see some greats. I mean, we got to see Mia Hamm play in person. I wish I’d seen more of Abby Wambach. We got to see a very young Abby Wambach. Yeah, get some early minutes. We did get to see Lionel Messi play, of course, for name dropping.
But I still think back of some of those. The men’s teams from the early nineties were, you know, some of these guys had other jobs yet, you know, and they were just, you know, really scraping to make it happen just through the love of the game. And so that was a lot of fun. You know, I might even have games on old VHS tapes yet, you know, to go back and look at.
Jeff:
A hundred percent. Yes. Yeah. Let me, let me ask about a. Building that you would love to design. Is there that passion project that if we go ahead and throw it out into the universe today, maybe that comes your way at some point? And it doesn’t need to be specific necessarily, but is there a kind of thing that you’re like, you know what I’d like to do? I want to build that.
Amy:
Gosh, I think what I love about our practice is we get to do a variety of different types of projects, and I don’t have a favorite type. I like the puzzle of it. I do think it’d be great to finally someday get to our own home, but we’ll do that once we’re retired.
Jeff:
Is that the cobbler’s kids that have no shoes?
Amy:
Yes, exactly. Someday, but that one will probably be decades in development.
Jeff:
What about you? Is there a type that you’d like?
Sean:
No, that’s actually, it’s a difficult, not to dodge it, but it’s a difficult question. There isn’t a certain type. No, usually there’s something. The personal stories that emerged and we like to frame design solutions around personal stories and just kind of try to role play and think of projects.
You know, what is it like on a Saturday night or a Tuesday morning? And especially a lot of our projects have mission driven towards children and serving children. And so even just remembrances of what that experience was like, but also not conflating our own childhood with maybe some of the unique challenges, you know, these children have.
But, you know, I guess I’d summarize it. Projects for children tend to, I don’t know, propel me forward even more than some of the others.
Jeff:
Yeah. Give you great joy on top of the accomplishment.
Sean:
Yeah.
Amy:
It’s interesting because I think that’s been a growth area of our work has been in nonprofits and around families and kids. I will say I will still always love the university campus because it’s like a little microcosm of a city.
And to get to work with a researcher who’s doing something you don’t even really know what that person’s doing, it’s pretty amazing because you’re working with people at the top of their game, innovating in new and different ways.
So that’s why I personally love the university environment because it is something new. It seems like every other project is something you’ve never heard of. And you get to work with really innovative people.
Jeff:
That is very exciting. My last question in the lightning round is coming back to the Small Business Miracles podcast. And we usually define a small business miracle as that thing that you didn’t think you were going to pull off as a small business owner. But, man, we did it. We made that happen. It was another small business miracle that we just pulled off at this point.
Do you have a moment that comes to mind where you have that kind of thought? Man, I didn’t think we’d be able to knock this out, but we finally did.
Amy:
I think there are a few commissions that we can’t talk about yet.
Jeff:
Understood.
Amy:
We’re kind of one of those like pretty incredible opportunities. I will say I think we’re small but mighty. And I think that embracing the term small and kind of letting folks know that it doesn’t mean that we can’t do.
Jeff:
Oh, absolutely.
Amy:
Pretty incredible things at all scales. Yeah. I’d say, you know, that’s kind of yet to be seen, I think, is what our next miracle will be. But sometimes just getting it across the line and hugging that contractor at the end.
Jeff:
That’s the miracle you’re looking for.
Amy:
We’re done. Nailed it. And we still like each other mostly.
Sean:
Well, you know, Amy mentioned the 10-year anniversary, but she started this on her own 10 years ago on our dining table. And just seeing it. Not just survive, but through downturns and pandemics, you know, everything that we all had to kind of muscle through.
And, you know, she’s the bold one, right? She jumps into the deep end and I’m going to dip my toe in the water, you know, business wise. And so when I got to join her, it was for me just like that boost, you know, for the next stage. my own experience and to experience these miracles together it’s been been wonderful.
Jeff:
Yeah, pandemic 2020. You were in the Women Who Mean Business Now Women of Influence class of 2020. You had to share that award with the pandemic. That’s not cool.
Amy:
It was kind of fine because I didn’t have to walk across the stage.
Jeff:
Oh, sure. It was all virtual. It’s all on Zoom. This way, 500 people. There’s a silver lining. I don’t know.
Amy:
Well, actually, I mean, we were a chamber top 10 in 2019. And so that’s what’s been interesting is we were kind of at the top of our game that year. And we were AI firm of the year. year that year and then the bottom just dropped out of us and so as it did for that i mean so many people but it was that first quarter of 2020 it was just a complete rethink so i mean in some ways the miracle is that we’re still kicking you know and it’s so many of us are but again it was the community right it was the community and this network of collaborative you know collaborative support clients found work for us to figure out how to get through you know and we we we were really blessed by, by that time and, and what the city did for us. But that, that’s, you know, probably something look back and I like to look forward. There’s, you know, that was a pretty good one, but you know, we can, we can always go forward.
Jeff:
There’s healthy there. There’s healthy there for sure. Well, I’ll take you out of the lightning round. You’ve survived the lightning round. And, and we’re, we’re doing a new thing in our second hundred episodes where at the end of the lightning round, I’ll turn it back to you guys and do, Do you have since I’ve asked you a bunch of questions, do you have any for me that you would want to throw out from marketing or otherwise kind of thing that you were curious about to put me on the hot seat since since I did that to you?
Amy:
I mean, I’m interested in the future of social media and where that sits in terms of a marketing strategy.
Jeff:
Oh, man. It’s so social media is one of those things where it has evolved tremendously to the point where it’s it’s. Depending on what kind of a business you have, it will either play a giant role in your strategy or it will play a very small and narrow role in your strategy.
I would expect that to evolve tremendously. But what you see in kind of the social media channels is a lot of just fracturing where we, you know, here’s our target audience and they’re very narrow in loving this platform. And depending on who your target audience is, they love that platform until their parents are on it or grandparents are on it, and then they move on to something else.
But it really is more two-way communication now than ever before. That balance of power really shifts so that it is a direct one-to-one pipeline for feedback. If your pizza doesn’t show up looking as gorgeous as it should, You get on and you can post that and someone somewhere at an agency or in a small room in a corporate building has to respond to that because otherwise your reputation is at stake.
So there’s still, I think, a lot that will happen, but it will continue to just be very segmented and fractured for a very long time until we all, I don’t know. Stop using phones. And I that will get to implant stage and you’ll just have it there and it will be a weird place to be in at that point. So I’ll stop predicting when we get to that.
So, yeah, it’s great question because it’s man, it can be ugly sometimes and it can show off the worst of us. But at the same time, it can be a great way to connect and stay connected with people that. You wouldn’t ever, you know, have kept up with over time. So I won’t write it off entirely as being just the worst place you could be, but you could sure see the worst place we could be as a species there.
Great question.
Amy:
The thick skin it must take, right, to be in the marketing world.
Jeff:
You could do it great 10 times and it’s the one time, right? It’s the one time. There’s a stat out there that is your average tweet has a lifespan of seven minutes. Unless everything goes wrong and then it will live forever.
Just terrible stats that could be there. But there are also some real positives from a brand connection standpoint because it can be a great way for a brand to connect. Your strategy will vary. So we’ll put a pin in it right there.
Yeah, great question. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. That’s good. I have no more questions for you. Let me just make sure everybody knows where they can find you, if they want to connect with you. Where do they go? Who should they look up? Where would you send them?
Amy:
Yeah, slatterydesign.com. It’s our website. It’s a central place for all things.
Jeff:
All right. Well, Slattery Design, Amy Slattery and Sean Slattery, the partners in the firm, thanks for being with us today.
Amy:
Thanks for having us. It was a lot of fun.
Sean:
Thank you. Thanks.
Jeff:
And that is our show. Thanks so much for listening. Be sure to like and subscribe. Give us a five-star rating and review. Drop us a line on the website at eagadv.com if you have any thoughts. Until then, we’ll be out here helping entrepreneurs with another small business miracle.