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Ben Davis is the host of the ‘Untrapped Entrepreneur’ podcast and a seasoned serial entrepreneur, and founder of The Gents Place. Ben joins us to give advice on the importance of culture, balancing your work and life, and how giving back gives you all the feels. In today’s marketing tip, we’re prioritizing our marketing tactics by understanding best practices and measurement for our tactics.
Transcript:
Jeff Randolph:
Welcome to the Small Business Miracles Podcast. I’m Jeff Randolph. This Small Business Podcast is brought to you by EAG Advertising and Marketing. We are going to talk about marketing and we’re also here to celebrate entrepreneurs. We have marketing news and advice that business owners can use to keep moving forward. This week we get to sit down with Ben Davis. He is the host of the Untrapped Entrepreneur Podcast and founder, president, and chairman of the board for The Gents Place. We’ll hear from him right after this marketing tip.
For today’s marketing tip, we are continuing our series on how to prioritize your marketing. Let’s talk about measuring your progress and best practices, because that will help us prioritize. We’re testing something very quickly, moving on to the next tactic. But before that, we really need to understand measurement and best practices. We’re always testing to get the best response and we’re trying to fail fast. If something doesn’t work and we have a limited budget, let’s not spend several months figuring out that this tactic just doesn’t work for us. Even though, we think it should. If it doesn’t work, get out of it fast. Fail fast so we can move on to a different tactic, or a different mix of tactics that we think will work for our business, our unique competitive set, unique market, unique everything. Here’s the thing though, if we’re measuring and we’re deciding what isn’t working, we have to have a handle on what the best practices are.
We need to make sure we’re doing it right. And that we know what a good result is for that tactic. First, let’s look at doing it right. Take a billboard ad, when you see a billboard, you have seven words max, as a rule of thumb. People are supposed to be concentrating on driving at 70 miles an hour while they’re driving. And your billboard message needs to be brief and high level. I’ve seen billboards with paragraphs of text or way too many competing images. If you load that billboard up with a million things and nobody can even find the logo to know who to call, you’re not doing it right. So you can’t then say, “Well, we tried billboards and they didn’t work for us.” So you have to understand the best practices of the creative and the channel, but you also have to understand how to measure that tactic.
A billboard is going to give you awareness more than direct response. But that awareness improves the rate at which your response happens. It’s like the tide that lifts all boats. Any of those awareness pieces generally improve the results of your other tactics that are more digital. So a paid search ad, SEO, or something else. It helps people look at something and go, “Oh yeah, I recognize that name.” So billboards, if we dive into that example for a little longer, billboards act as a support media. And a lot of times, they’ll help other tactics perform better over time. Billboards don’t work just the one time when someone drives past it. We look at how many cell phone calls you get from that. The repetition helps people remember who you are, that top line message that you have, or that top line image. Measuring whether or not a billboard works for you, is a very different animal. And a set of measurements than just, “How many cell phone calls did we get when they were driving past, while they were actively looking at that billboard?”
We need to make sure we’re doing it right. And we need to know what a good result is for that tactic. After that, we can look at the budget we’ve spent, that’s relative to the other tactics, and see if one is giving us a better result for the investment, then we can make that choice. But first, we have to make sure we know whether a one percent conversion rate is good in this channel or if it’s terrible. A one percent conversion of everyone who saw my TV ad may be great because hundreds of thousands of people saw that ad. But a one percent conversion of my sales calls may be terrible, because I may see a hundred sales prospects every year. And only closing the one to get a 1% response, may be totally unacceptable. So measuring your progress, understanding what’s working for you, so we can prioritize your marketing, that’s today’s marketing tip.
All right. Welcome to the show. I want to introduce somebody here, our next guest. It’s Ben Davis. He is the dynamic host of the Untrapped Entrepreneur Podcast and a seasoned serial entrepreneur who has built multiple seven and eight figure businesses, ranging from retail, healthcare, to personal care. He’s attracted world-class investors to his companies, including Dallas Cowboys owner, Jerry Jones, and Hall of Famer, Emmitt Smith. Through his podcast, Ben creates a space for authentic conversation and learning, shedding light on the less talked about aspects of entrepreneurship, and inviting listeners to explore the true essence of being an entrepreneur. He’s also the founder, president, and chairman of the board of The Gents Place. Please welcome Ben Davis to the show, Ben.
Ben Davis:
Thanks for having me.
Jeff Randolph:
We’re happy to have you here. So again, we’re happy to have you here because I think your background is going to speak volumes to everybody here. I want to talk about that podcast first though, Untrapped, the Untrapped Entrepreneur Podcast. You talk with seasoned business owners about the traps that lie on every entrepreneurial journey and how to escape them. What are some of those traps that you tackle on the show? And I’m expecting to sense a whole lot of head nodding from listeners as they hear these common traps.
Ben Davis:
Man, there’s so many, as you know, as an entrepreneur. What I try to do on the Untrapped Entrepreneur Show is, get people talking about the things they don’t normally talk about, the things that they’re scared to talk about. Maybe they almost went bankrupt one time and nobody knows. Maybe they lost their marriage or were real close to losing their marriage, and they didn’t want anyone to know about it. I try to uncover those things that are the real traps. It’s not the, “Hey, here’s how to get a bank loan,” and “If you’re running a little short on money.” It’s hard as an interviewer to pull that out. I think I was successful in some cases, so far in the show. And other ones, I’m like, “Dang it, man, you told me that off the air, but you didn’t go there on the show.” So yeah, I don’t know if people like me or hate me after the show, because I really do try to get them to say things I haven’t said before.
Jeff Randolph:
Well, and there’s so much there. There’s so many traps. I mean, you’ve got content for days on this one. Let’s keep talking about the podcast though, because you took your second season in a very different direction, and I think that it’s great. You’re focused on marriage and business. You threw that out there in your description of the other traps of, you’re married, you’ve got a family, you’ve got other things to think about. You’re talking about the role of your spouse in the business and everything that they bring to the table. But also, the boundaries that you need to set up to keep things very happy, to keep you centered as a couple, first and foremost. Describe what you’re trying to do in that season two topic.
Ben Davis:
When you’re an entrepreneur, you have a significant other in most cases, whether it’s someone that you’re married to, girlfriend, or boyfriend. But what I realized is that everybody has this unique relationship, in this case, season two was, you’re actually married, with your spouse. Some of these relationships were, “My spouse and I work the business together all day, every day, and we’ve been doing it for 10 or 15 years.” Others, it’s the polar opposite, “She doesn’t even know what I do.” And there’s everything in between. I was just fascinated with, you’re married… And my wife and I have been together since we were 16 years old. You’re married, running a business, how do you guys make that work? And I specifically interviewed people who had not been divorced.
Jeff Randolph:
Right.
Ben Davis:
There’s nothing against being divorced, but I wanted to interview someone, they’re like, “You made it work. You made the business work, you made marriage work.” I think what you’ll find in season two is just, it’s looking at the same… It’s not an issue, it’s just a reality. The same reality of being married and owning your business from a 360-degree view. And there were some opposing views from show to show, like, “I tell my spouse everything,” to “I tell my spouse only what he or she needs to know.”
Jeff Randolph:
And your own story comes out as part of the season. I’ve enjoyed listening to that, as well, where you’ve had to fire your spouse. That was a moment, that was a thing that happened. And yet, you’re still alive, thriving, and you’re still growing strong.
Ben Davis:
Oh man, I hope that topic comes up on every podcast I’m on, that I fired my wife. I don’t know if she would enjoy that, but we both get a laugh out of it now. It wasn’t fun at the time. But there comes a day of reckoning when you work with your spouse on, is this going to work in the future? And I don’t know, just based on people I’ve interviewed, I don’t know if there’s any perfect situation that has avoided that. But our day of reckoning was, “This is not sustainable the way we’re doing it, and we have to restructure.”
And we did, we restructured. We reorganized, then we separated into lanes, and we can’t report into each other. So if there’s any hierarchy there, it’s just not going to work. That was our solution is, like, “Stay in your lane. We can give each other feedback, but don’t tell me what to do.” My wife’s favorite phrase in life is, “Don’t tell me what to do.”
Jeff Randolph:
I understand that. I get it. It looked like you had such good boundary setting, and good communication at the heart of all of that. And if you can make that work, it’s the best. Have there been any unexpected lessons or new revelations as part of this season and all of its interviews?
Ben Davis:
There’s been a lot. One of the episodes with Marshall Morris really hit home with me, because it was something I shared. We’re both married, both have kids, and he has a family motto, a family phrase, or family values. And it was like, “Never give up. Persistence wins, finish well.” Something like that where, it was just a solid set of words for his family to live by, for he and his wife, and his family.
And for us it was, “We take winning shots.” I tell my kids that. I’m a big basketball fan, but, “We take winning shots.” We’re not afraid to have three seconds on the clock, everybody on the team is looking around going, “Who’s going to shoot it?” And it’s like, “I’ll shoot it.” I’ll go on the harsh edge of reality, and if I make it, I get some of the glory. If I miss it, I can handle it.
Jeff Randolph:
It’s a lesson learned, yeah.
Ben Davis:
Yeah. And I think, whether it’s being married or married with kids, having some sort of foundation there for you to go back to. That was one of the things that hit home with me. There’s a ton of lessons out there in terms of communication. And another one, I think it was Chris Royalty, he said, “In business when nothing is said, things are usually going great.” It’s like, “Oh, hey Jeff, how are things going? Oh, good? Okay, awesome.” But he said, “In marriage, it’s the exact opposite.” Being married and running a business, it’s like, “If nothing’s being said, something’s probably wrong.” It’s pretty insightful.
Jeff Randolph:
There’s something stewing under there that needs to come up.
Ben Davis:
If everything’s, fine, fine, fine, it’s probably not, fine, fine, fine.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s right, absolutely. And yeah, winners want the ball at the end of the game. When the game’s on the line, winners want the ball. You’re a true serial entrepreneur. In addition to, The gents place and the podcast, you’re a principal for USA Gloves. You’re a brand owner for Rascal and Cliff Supply, in the men’s personal care industry, co-founder of Servant Health and Operation Gentlemen. You’re doing amazing things with homeless and veterans.
When you manage your time across all of these different ventures, how do you define what gets your attention? Is it, whatever’s on fire or struggling, or do you have a system to give attention to each of these things as needed?
Ben Davis:
Definitely a system. Many years ago I set up, and I’m religious about it, either weekly or biweekly meetings, calls, just touch bases, even if there is nothing planned to talk about. We talked two days before, ad hoc, but our weekly meeting is coming up on Wednesday. I always keep those meetings, very few exceptions. And sometimes, the call is really short when I’m checking in with a manager, a business partner, an investor, as a board member to a CEO, I keep that call. And the beautiful thing is, when you keep a cadence like that, and there’s nothing to talk about in business, you end up talking about life, and that’s valuable.
It’s like, “Okay, business is great. Hey man, how’s your kid?” I have two kids that have had major health issues. My middle son has had four open heart surgeries. Looks like, we just got news, he may have to have another. But just connecting with people as humans, when you set that time out, it tells them, “You’re important. My time, you know, is important. I know your time is important.” And I think that’s the magic of it. If you’re constantly just reactive, it’s really difficult to manage multiple things at once.
Jeff Randolph:
And tough to be getting into that proactive mindset. So, all of the work downstream, seems to get jumbled up, and you’re always reacting instead of planning for the future. Yeah, good call. I like it. Let’s talk about growth for a minute, and The Gents Place, specifically. It’s a membership-based club where you get more than a haircut. You get an experience where you can hang out before or after, network, or take a meeting, to generally belong and invest in yourself. You’ve got 11 locations in five states. It’s been great to hear that story of growth on the podcast. I’m curious, what is something that you may have done in year one of the business, that you wouldn’t do today, if you had it to do all over again, retrospective vision being what it is?
Ben Davis:
This is a three-hour answer, Jeff.
Jeff Randolph:
True. Well, answer in all three hours. We’ll cut it down to the three words that are… No.
Ben Davis:
I’ll pick one. I was 25 years old when I started my business. I had no money. Borrowed from grandma and the bank. And I decided to do my own bookkeeping. I was going to learn QuickBooks, I was going to do my own bookkeeping, I was going to manage the place, I was going to work the front desk, I was going to do the ordering. I would never do that again in any business, ever again, and have not made that mistake since. I see, whether it’s some of our franchisees, or other new business owners, spend time on bookkeeping. I’m like, “Dude, the world is flat, for $400 a month, you never have to do bookkeeping. Whether you use someone in Colombia or a part-time mom, there’s a million bookkeepers. Stop doing that.” That would be my one recommendation for listeners, if you are doing your own bookkeeping and you own the business, even if you own a bookkeeping business, you shouldn’t be doing your own bookkeeping.
Jeff Randolph:
Someone else should be looking at that. And someone who knows what they’re doing, keeps up on all of those things, yes, absolutely.
Ben Davis:
The caveat to that, it doesn’t mean that you’re not looking at your financials diligently. You’re not managing the business by financial statements. It just means you’re not keying in the invoice in the QuickBooks.
Jeff Randolph:
The day-to-day, absolutely. I want to pivot just a little bit and talk culture, because you have built culture very intentionally. And it really is something that’s all encompassing. It’s that set of values that drives what you do and who you attract to the business, in terms of customers, but also in terms of employees. Give us a sense of why it was so important to make sure there was a culture that reflected your personal values and could help the organization grow.
Ben Davis:
I came from the insurance business, which is now Goosehead Insurance, which was taken public by all my buddies from childhood that I recruited into the company. I was the fifth employee there, I grew it to about 150 people, and then I left to start The Gents Place. What I learned in the insurance business was, we were in a commodity business. Everybody sold insurance. And we were selling auto and home insurance. This wasn’t anything special or fancy. We were selling the same Progressive policy as an independent agent, as someone else. And we had to differentiate ourselves. The way that we did that is, I created the Client Service Department. I went down to UT Austin and attended an Executive Education Class on the Experiential Economy. I learned about Starbucks, what they did, Disney, and Nordstrom. I came back and I helped implement a system that set us apart from a service standpoint.
Well, along with that, comes culture, like, that you’re a commodity for the consumer in that business, you’re also a commodity as an employer for the employee. You’re just any other insurance owner and insurance manager. When I went into the high-end barber shop, we call it a Barber and Business Club now, when I went into that business, I saw a lot of the same things. It’s a haircut, how could we differentiate that? We did a good job differentiating it on the service menu, making it membership based, the facility, the bar, and everything that went into it. I knew that we had to differentiate ourselves as an employer. And so that began my journey on, how do we do that? Talking to our people, “Hey, do you value health insurance, 401k?” We started to implement these things really early on in the business.
We put a matching 401k program in within the first year, and we were the very first company to do that. Even when the team members didn’t necessarily understand what a 401k was, or value it, they talked about it with their friends. “Oh, these guys offer matching 401k.” They probably, I am certain of it, had no idea what that even meant. But it was just something that was different, it added value, and it thought about them.
I think, for your listeners, everyone wants to build a really great culture. It has to be differentiated. It can’t be, “Okay, let’s go see what my competitor’s doing, and copy and paste that.” This is how I think as an entrepreneur, I look at what everybody else is doing, and then I sit down quietly and think, “What are they not doing? And that’s what I’m going to do.”
Jeff Randolph:
And bringing in the best practices from other industries to say, “Hey, Starbucks does this for healthcare,” or other amazing culture and HR kind of innovations, you bring this in now. Don’t be just on parody with the competition, do better. Nicely done. I want to use that as an opportunity to get us into the lightning round. Are you ready for the lightning round?
Ben Davis:
I mean, I don’t know because you didn’t tell me what you were going to ask me.
Jeff Randolph:
Exactly right. We’ve at least given topic selection for all the questions we’ve talked about before, so you know a little bit about what’s coming. Now, you don’t.
Ben Davis:
I’m going to come from a place of confidence, Jeff, and say, “Yes, I am ready.”
Jeff Randolph:
That’s the way to do it.
Ben Davis:
Even though, I’m really scared.
Jeff Randolph:
Shorter sound bite answers. I’m going to do this. This is our first ever audio lightning round. I’m going to share an audio clip with you from one of your shows. And I’m going to see a little bit of reaction out of that. Here we go. This is our first ever. We’ll see how it goes.
Ben Davis:
“How do you manage the work/life balance as a serial entrepreneur and what advice you would give to others struggling with this?” My answer, don’t play golf. I’m serious about this. I don’t have time to play golf because I love pouring into my businesses, into my family, and into just simply relaxing. Golf is this sport that takes three, four, five, six, seven hours, all day to enjoy, that it really just cuts out, in most cases, an entire day out of my life, that I just can’t afford to give up. I love golf. I love the guys that play golf. But if you’re really a serial entrepreneur and you’re trying to get balance or invest in all these different aspects of your life that are important to you, you may have to cut something else out, like golf, or something similar, in order to make it work.
Jeff Randolph:
I’ll stop sharing that audio clip right there, so that we can get a sense of it. First, there’s a lot to unpack there. Why do you hate golf so much? Why is this?
Ben Davis:
I feel like the PGA is going to come after me after that.
Jeff Randolph:
They need to. No, actually, it’s interesting because it does talk about priority. You’re totally right. But there are a great number of golf simulators out there now, that will let you play Pebble Beach in an hour, if you’d like, or a Top Golf company, where you can just be out there for a limited amount of time, and you don’t have to be that good. We still hold onto that. Do you pick golf because it’s the obvious, this is a four- or five-hour bit of your life that you’re never going to get back, or does it stretch out to anything that is other hobby?
Ben Davis:
It stretches out to anything. But what I have lodged in my mind is, business has changed. And 20, 30, 40 years ago… My godparents taught me how to play golf when I was 10 years old because they said, “Benjamin, you’re going to need this one day, because this is where deals are done. This is how you fit into the business world.” And things have fundamentally changed. That’s still around, but country clubs are declining, and the way to, “Get business done,” is not solely a five-hour golf outing. It could be, but things have changed a lot. And so, my point mentioning that is, if you’re still hearing that from… And God bless my godparents, my parents, and everybody before, but if you’re still hearing, “This is what you need to do to fit in,” there’s probably a better use of five hours of your time.
Jeff Randolph:
One hundred percent, yeah. I heard the same thing in seventh grade, “You need to start playing golf so that you can do business.” And that was what we did. My brother and I finished a round of golf, 18 holes with a cart. There was nobody in front of us. We finished in under two hours, the entire 18 round course. And we looked at each other and said, “We’ve got to go to the bar or something after this, because no one can know it only takes two hours to play.”
Ben Davis:
Who had blocked out five hours of their lives.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s right. This is not… Nobody should know that this is-
Ben Davis:
It does help that you’re really good too, by the way. It’s five hours for me. It’s two hours for you, Jeff.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s right. It’s something like that. What aspect of business do you wish you knew more about that you had a better handle on?
Ben Davis:
I think finance. I’m a finance major, but I didn’t spend all my time in finance. I spent all my time running my business. And I’m fascinated with AI, Power BI, and Microsoft. I just hired a great finance guy and my whole world’s opened up. So yeah, I think finance would be it, if I could go back in time and learn more.
Jeff Randolph:
Learn a little bit more. Good. And at least you want to learn a little bit more about it. That’s interesting, instead of just saying, “Yeah, I’m never touching it.” Next question, serial entrepreneurs have that brain that leads them into whatever the next thing is, and saying, yes, all the time to that next thing. What has been a heartbreaking no that you’ve had to force yourself to say, that keeps coming back to the surface? You want to say yes to it, but you keep saying, no, over and over. And maybe if it isn’t a no, it’s a, “I can’t focus on that yet, but man, that’s a thing I want to explore.”
Ben Davis:
I have one of these at any given moment.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s the brain. That’s the brain. It’s a thing.
Ben Davis:
I won’t tell you the specific business opportunity because it is a little unique, but I have an opportunity right now, and this happens frequently. But this one is nagging at me. I have somebody saying, “We need to start this business. Will you help me? I have a proprietary channel. I have a proprietary lead source. No one has this. I know you can help me with five hours of your week. I know you can.” I’m like, “Let’s pause, let’s wait.” And then he keeps bringing more evidence. I’m going, “He’s right.”
Jeff Randolph:
He’s right.
Ben Davis:
But does it mean… Just because I can, does it mean I should? And I have to tell my… That’s what goes on in my brain, literally that phrase, and I’m probably going to end up doing it. I don’t know how to stop that, necessarily.
Jeff Randolph:
If we’ve learned nothing from Jurassic Park, it’s, just because we can do something, doesn’t mean we should be doing it. And dinosaurs happened after that. If you don’t have that five hours now, to dedicate to that new venture, that can be a challenge.
Ben Davis:
There are two words though, I’ll tell you that I think could be helpful. There’s advice out there that says, “Say, yes, to everything, and you never know where it leads.” There’s advice out there that says, “Learn to say, no.” And for me, my two words are, “It depends.” That causes me pause to reflect and say, “It depends. Do I want more money, more work/life balance? Do I want to pay it forward?” There’s going to be a reason why I take that next step. I tell myself that too, “It depends. Think about it and then make a decision.”
Jeff Randolph:
You mentioned on the podcast one time that your dad doesn’t know what you do. You thought that he might get it when he walked into The Gent’s Place, but ultimately, he didn’t quite get it. I think there are a lot of us that resonate with that these days. And maybe even goes back to that, “You should play golf if you want to do business.” Do you think we all strive for that recognition from our parents, or is it really okay, if they don’t get it, if other people don’t really understand?
Ben Davis:
Yeah, I mean, everyone has a different relationship with their parents. Certainly for me, my dad was military. There was an expectation that you do great, and when you don’t do great, what’s wrong? I remember coming home, my mom was like, “Why’d you get a 92?” I’m like, “That’s an A.” She goes, “Yeah, but that was your lowest grade. You got 98s on everything else.” And I’m like, “I can’t win here.”
Jeff Randolph:
Eight points, yeah.
Ben Davis:
Yeah. So for me, yes. I certainly feel like I’ve accomplished that. I’m okay with my dad not knowing everything I do. But yeah, you want to make your parents proud. If you were growing in a household where there was a high standard, there were values, and there were expectations, no question.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. Last question in the lightning round, how do you celebrate a big win, whether that’s personal, a family, a sporting event, or whatever, how do you celebrate once that’s done?
Ben Davis:
I was going to tell you, popping bottles, but I don’t drink alcohol. Probably, wish I could do that, or wanted to. I always picture Mark Cuban with a cigar in his mouth, and 2011 Dallas Mavs win. For me, it’s different now as I’ve gotten older. And I know this is lightning round, but I’ll give you a little perspective on this. Before it was about, showing people I won. “I got this, I’m going to go to the newspaper, I’m going to go online, and I’m going to let everybody know what happened.” David Vinoy, in my season two show said, “You don’t need to dunk on everybody, but sometimes when you have a competitor that challenges you, they need to be dunked on sometimes.” And so that’s how, I think, where I was early on in my entrepreneurial journey. If I could dunk on somebody, I would. Now, I try to take that win and turn it into some sort of contribution.
And I’ll still put that out there because I want people to know, when you win, you’re doing it for a purpose. And so I have on my LinkedIn profile, “I make money to make a positive difference.” So that’s my humblebrag is, when I win, it’s like, “Oh yeah, we’re going to donate some extra meals to a homeless veteran, because we got this win,” or “We’re going to go out and put some money into a scholarship fund.” It just makes me feel good. And then, I like putting that out there, so other people might do the same thing, and not buy the Lambo. They go and do something a little bit different.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, I think that may give you a much better sense of accomplishment and good feeling than popping bottles. That’s a win. Ben Davis, host of the Untrapped Entrepreneur Podcast, where can people find you if they’re ready to learn more?
Ben Davis:
Yeah, easiest place is most of my handles, if not all, are Untrapped Pod, P-O-D, on X, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. So go follow me there, or just go to Untrapped.com.
Jeff Randolph:
All right. And Ben, thank you for being with us today on the podcast. Appreciate you being here.
Ben Davis:
Jeff, thanks so much.
Jeff Randolph:
And that is our show. Thanks to our guest, Ben Davis. And thank you for listening to the Small Business Miracles Podcast. Remember to subscribe, leave us a five-star rating and review, drop us a line on the website at Eagadv.com, if you have any thoughts. And until then, we’ll be out here helping entrepreneurs with another, Small Business Miracle.