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Edgar Palacios is the Founder & CEO of Revolución Educativa (RevEdKC.org) where they improve education outcomes in the Kansas City community. In today’s tip section, we help prioritize your marketing by thinking about lead generation and brand awareness – where do you spend your marketing budget?
Here’s an article from the Kansas City Star
to learn more about what Revolución Educativa is doing in the community.
Transcript:
Jeff Randolph:
Welcome to the Small Business Miracles podcast. I’m Jeff Randolph. This small business podcast is brought to you by EAG Advertising and Marketing. We are going to talk about marketing and we’re also here to celebrate entrepreneurs. We have marketing news and advice that business owners can use to keep moving forward. This week we sit down with Edgar Palacios, who is building sustained power for the Latinx community to make Kansas City a better place. We’ll hear from him right after this marketing tip.
In today’s tip section, we’re continuing our journey on how we should prioritize our marketing. So prioritizing your marketing also includes an understanding of where you need to put your time and attention. And I think we could probably just say budget here too, right? I mean, that is our time and attention. It’s the thing that we’re focused on. So this is going to start us thinking about how we allocate our marketing budget on lead generation or brand awareness. You can go on a sliding scale between the two. So think about it this way. If I can only dedicate $100 to my marketing, which is not enough marketing budget, I’m just going to tell you that right now. If I can only dedicate $100 to my marketing budget, how much of that do I put on awareness efforts that help customers know who I am, that I basically exist as a choice? And how much of that $100 do I put on direct lead generation kinds of things that capture a customer at the moment that they decide that they’re going to make a purchase?
This is an age-old question in marketing, and a lot of people would say you can focus on just those customers who are ready to make a choice. They’ve already identified their need and they’re ready to make a purchase. So just go at them when they’re ready to be sold. And typically, yeah, those people are more expensive to reach. If you’re doing paid search for a pay per click kind of environment, those last clicks can be more expensive clicks to get there. If you’re advertising on Meta, Facebook, Instagram, it’ll be a little more expensive if you’re running an ad with a sales conversion objective. But hey, these are customers and they’re looking to buy a product in your category. So let’s focus there.
All right, now let’s look at the top end of the funnel. The brand awareness argument. Brands that you know have an edge. Brand advertising has a goal of having a broad reach into your audience. We’re usually talking about tactics here like TV or OTT, you may have heard over the top advertising, or radio, billboards magazine, YouTube video marketing. Bigger, bigger, broader reach kinds of vehicles that we’re choosing. You’re making people aware of your brand and who you are and why they would choose you versus a competitor. There are a lot of studies that have been done about how the presence of brand advertising along with your marketing mix improves the performance of all of the other lead generation tactics that you’re using. It’s that rising tide that lifts all boats.
But we’ll also look at more studies that show that the perception of the brand you know is going to be a quality brand. You know them, you’ve seen them on TV or you’ve heard them on the radio, so they must be a quality brand. We know Lexus more than we know Rivian. We know Salesforce more than we know Apptivo. Having a good reputation and being known as a brand has just given you an edge over the lesser known competition. So if this is a paid search environment and we’re looking at the top three results that you get in a Google search, the one you’ve heard of before is probably going to get that click versus ones that may rank higher on your search results but you’ve never heard of before.
So the right answer is going to be investing in the lead generation piece at the bottom of your funnel for sure, but your budget is going to be well invested if you can also start to move higher on the funnel into that awareness piece at the same time. So how far up that awareness ladder can you go to really make your brand known while you’re also capturing those people at the moment they’re ready?
Mature big brands have this down. They take advantage of brand awareness investments they’ve made to get an edge as the decision comes down to that final part of the funnel. So prioritizing our entire marketing spend along that funnel, yeah, do definitely hit that lead generation component. But don’t forget to try to get up as high as you can into the other side in brand awareness.
Welcome back to the podcast. We are here with Edgar Palacios, the founder and CEO of Revolución Educativa, revedkc.org. Hey, Edgar, welcome to the show.
Edgar Palacios:
Thank you so much for having me today.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, so tell us about the organization itself and kind of your origin story. ‘Cause you’re the founder, the CEO. You had passion around this, so let’s talk about what it is and what you’re trying to do.
Edgar Palacios:
Yeah, well one, I appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk about the work a little bit. I’m Edgar Palacios. I am the founder of Revolución Educativa, RevEd, and the Latinx Education Collaborative, LEC. I founded the 501C3 first and the idea behind the C3 was that we needed to increase the representation of Latino educators in K-12. And Revolución Educativa was actually founded at the same time. I did the paperwork for it at the same time. It’s a 51C4 organization, which is more of a political advocacy organization. So I thought that one day that we would build a community large enough that they might have an opinion about things that were happening within the community and then that we would able to use the C4 to exercise that opinion in a political and public way.
So the reason that I got into this work is that I had a phenomenal opportunity to be a community consultant for a local foundation. And part of my work, I got to travel across the country and just see different school systems and school models and just some really great ideas that could be brought potentially back into Kansas City. What I ended up noticing though was the increasingly large number of Latino students that were in classrooms and the lack of representation when it came to educators or administrators or staff members in the school buildings.
And so I remember being in Houston, Texas of all places and walking into a school. And to this day, I very clearly remember 99.9% of the students were Latino and there were no educators of color. And so I remember asking the principal, “Hey, you’re in Houston, Texas. To me, it does not make sense that in a city this large, you would not have one educator of color in the building.” And I asked why that was. And she gave me a two-part response, which I think still drives our work today. The first part of it being, “We go into the neighborhoods, we do what we can, but we get who we get and Houston’s a competitive environment. So it is what it is.”
And then the second part of her response, “We can teach anybody to teach, but they have to be a good culture fit.” And so for me, that hit me ’cause I was like, “What are we talking about when we say culture? Whose culture are we talking about?” All this other stuff. But it sparked an idea, and that idea was somewhat connected to frustration. Because I think that answer and response just wasn’t good enough.
Jeff Randolph:
It’s not good enough. Yeah, there’s a big disconnect there.
Edgar Palacios:
Yeah, a huge disconnect. And I think my original idea to this was I’m going to go and meet every Latino educator in the world and I’m going to create a Google sheet and put all their names in there. And that way when somebody tells me, “Hey, I can’t find any,” “Cool, here’s a list. Good luck.”
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, go get them.
Edgar Palacios:
Clearly the issues around teacher representation and teacher diversity and teaching are much more complicated than that. And I appreciate how naive I was in the beginning to think that I could just easily, “here’s a list.” And so the work is a million times more complicated and complex. And so my experience as an entrepreneur has been to say, “Oh, wait a second, this is another layer to this issue and another layer to this issue.” And then try to find solutions that are, one, community informed and community driven, but also in some ways saying if the current systems aren’t working, what are some new systems that can be created that actually help improve the outcomes of our young people? Particularly our Latino students.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. And you definitely have several initiatives that you’ve got going on that help that. I was on your website and looking at the, you’ve got a great explainer video on the front page there that really gets into the issue and isn’t short. I mean, it gives you enough to go on. And I saw something that looked a little startling. And correct my math on the stats if you need to, but only 1% of the K-12 teacher population in Kansas City identify as Latino. That’s the same kind of experience you had in Houston. Crazy.
Edgar Palacios:
Yeah, it is crazy. And what’s even crazier is that when I started the organization when I… We’re grant funded, and so we have to write grants and we have to establish the business case for it, the why we need to exist and how our idea or solution is a good idea or solution and whatnot. And I remember I spent about three or four months on this, I went through every district website that was around Kansas City. So first and foremost, I went to the district websites. Then I went to school by school, and I still have the spreadsheet on this. And I looked for every potential Latino last name or if you visually look Latino, I was counting you.
Jeff Randolph:
We’ll count you. Yeah.
Edgar Palacios:
Yeah. And I did the math and it was somewhere between 2 to 4%. And so a few years later, we partner with the Urban Education Research Center at UMKC, and we officially got the count. And that was that only 1% of educators are Latino. At that time in 2021, that’s roughly 261 teachers. And you compare that with 52,000 Latino students, you start to see that there’s a huge gap in disparity there that needs to be addressed.
The reason that that’s important, some people will say, well, can’t anybody teach kids?
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, sure.
Edgar Palacios:
That’s not the issue that we think about. We think about the research and the data that explained that when students see themselves reflected in the teachers and the administrators that serve them, they tend to have better educational outcomes and experiences. And so for a community that is growing within schools in Kansas City public schools and the charters, 30% of students are Latino. In Kansas City, Kansas Public Schools, that number is up to 60%. And so there’s clearly a strong Latino student population, and we need to do collectively as a community a better job of ensuring that there are adults in the building that understand the culture, identify with the culture, can be seen as part of the culture. ‘Cause that just makes a huge difference.
Jeff Randolph:
And you’re working on that with… In 2018, you launched the Latinx Education Collaborative. How does that help? What kinds of activities does that do to help address that divide?
Edgar Palacios:
Yeah, I think we’re getting better at what we do and we’re becoming more strategic with what we’re doing. I think we have a wealth of wraparound supports that include coaching and mentoring, some community building efforts as well. Because we’ve heard from educators that sometimes they feel lonely or isolated in the building. There are cases where they are the only one, and if they happen to speak Spanish or be bilingual, then I say that they become the Chief Latino Officer of the school. Anytime that there’s an issue within the community, anytime that there needs to be a translator, an interpreter there, they get tapped on. And there’s, again, no additional compensation for that, but it becomes a huge issue.
One thing that we’re thinking about is how do we encourage young people to consider education as a viable career option? And so we try to get into schools as much as we can to talk to young people about becoming teachers and tapping them on the shoulder and really creating a positive narrative around teaching. We actually launched a program last year where we’re committing to creating or to being a part of creating 15 new Latino educators by 2027. 50 seems like a small number-
Jeff Randolph:
But if we’re talking 1% of the teacher population, is that your growth rate could be good on this one.
Edgar Palacios:
Exponential on that one. And so we are thinking about how do we actually really walk alongside a group, a cohort of educators, and ensure that for whatever barrier they face, we can help remove that barrier. So we can get them into the profession, we can get them certified, and then we can keep them for longer than two years. I think that’s one of the bigger issues within the teaching profession at the moment. There’s a lot of resources spent on attracting new teachers and less resources spent on creating the cultures and environments that teachers want to stay in. And so you tend to lose teachers quickly, and particularly when they’re black and brown teachers, you’re going to lose them more quickly than your white teacher. And so those are some issues that we have to face as a system and to address in order for us to improve that system.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, you mentioned as you got into this and founded the organization that it was a little like peeling layers of onions where you’re like, “Oh, and I didn’t realize that was a problem. And now this is a problem too.” All of these things you need to address. We can also talk about the digital divide in the community, because that can certainly create a disadvantage. And I’ll throw out a few more stats. The Economics and Statistics Administration and the National Telecommunications and Information Administration said that 57% of Latinos in the U.S. don’t have access to high-speed internet at home, and you’re addressing some of those issues with a program you call EducaTec. Tell us about that.
Edgar Palacios:
So first I want to shout out Erika Garcia Reyes, who is the founder of that program and the visionary for that. One thing that we hear from districts and other learning entities is that they’re having hard times communicating with families. And particularly immigrant families, and particularly Spanish dominant families as well. And so, one thing that we’ve recognized that some of the families that we serve actually don’t have access to a computer or reliable internet, or they just haven’t been trained in some of the applications or systems that are able to utilize to communicate. And so we launched EducaTec as a digital literacy program as part of the organization. People will ask me, “Well, why did the LEC take this on? That’s not part of your mission.” I would push back and say that it actually is because representation, I think for me, that word has grown what it actually means to be well represented in schools.
And I think our community, in addition to educators being Latino, we also have Latino families that want to participate and should participate. We have Latino students themselves who we can support in their own identity development. Then we have people who are allies who want to be supportive of the work that we do, but don’t know where to start. So we’re thinking about all those areas. But with parents particularly, it is this idea of how do we improve the communication between schools and families? Particularly when there’s a language barrier. And then how do we take responsibility for the fact that some of our families just don’t have the access necessary for them to engage in a meaningful way with schools?
So the program was launched, I think we have graduated 107 parents from this program over the last year. And one thing that I’m really proud of is because of various partnerships, every parent leaves their program with a computer. Every parent understands how to use the Google Suite, so to speak. So they know how to use Gmail, they know how to use Google Docs, they know how to write a letter, these things that are important. But what’s been really interesting about that program to me is that one of the unintended benefits and outcomes of that program is the community that is built by the participants.
And here we are thinking that we’re trying to help put a dent into digital literacy, and what we’re actually doing in some ways is strengthening the bonds within community. Because then these folks are coming together talking about their issues, sharing resources, and just feeling like they’re part of something larger, which is a really powerful thing. It really excites me that I think about the work that we do, and then really some of the most important things is that communities being built in healthy and meaningful ways.
Jeff Randolph:
And adding a lot of energy around support of education from the parent side, energizing that parent teacher organization almost in a microcosm. Let me pivot a little bit and talk about you as that visionary. You’re the leader of the revolution, in Kansas City for sure. But a lot of this, we’re talking to entrepreneurs and we’re talking about the kind of passion that people have, especially people with an entrepreneur kind of brain. You created this organization. I assume that you learned a lot of lessons along the way. What would you say is the best piece of advice that you’ve gotten or biggest lesson learned as you’ve gone on this journey?
Edgar Palacios:
It’s been a wild journey, and I think I learned something new every day. And in fact, I’ll venture to say that every day I know more about how less I know. That doesn’t make sense, but I’m more aware that I don’t know as much as I thought I did. And you have to be comfortable with that, and I’m getting more comfortable with that and practicing that. I think one of the things that I take away, and that is very present for me as an entrepreneur, is feedback and how to actually discern feedback. What’s feedback that is meant to help your business and your organization grow and thrive? What’s feedback that’s meant to derail it? And what’s feedback that just doesn’t even have a purpose? And so I think when you’re in a community driven organization… And actually businesses have customers, they’re not gonna just walk up. And so how do you really discern on what feedback is valuable or not? And having a practice around that, understanding that feedback is critical to a long-term sustainability of any business or organization. So that’s a lesson that I carry with me and I’m still working through.
I also didn’t recognize how much you have to think about hiring individuals with a certain set of qualities. So I think part of my lessons and with HR and in hiring particularly, is that organizations have to be clear about the qualities and the skill sets that they’re looking for from people or else it’s never going to be a good fit on either side, and that this doesn’t feel good for anyone. So I actually have written down 10 qualities that I think about around who’s going to be a good fit in our organization, not just serve other organizations, but with entrepreneurial mindset and resourcefulness being two qualities that I look for in somebody who I’m about to hire. If you need a lot of guidance and instruction and back and forth and stuff, you’re probably not going to be successful in this organization. And there are organizations that will do that well and provide that. I’m looking for folks who are going to be creative and problem solvers and go and find solutions, and then we can debate the solutions, right?
Jeff Randolph:
Right.
Edgar Palacios:
Typically, I’m going to say, “Yeah, let’s try it. Let’s figure it out.” But having a good understanding of what is the profile of the person that you need, and actually those qualities sometimes even being more important than the skill sets that they have themselves.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, then we can train certain things, but if you don’t have that get out there and come up with a solution on your own and present that solution to us rather than say, “Hey, I’ve got this problem. This is my problem, and you need to solve this problem.” It’s more of a collaborative environment that you’re trying to build. Yeah, having the right people in the right seats on the bus, really important. And when you get that wrong, bad people make good people leave. So we want to make sure that we have all the right people. Hiring. Hiring is so important for everything.
Let’s ask the question about what’s next, what is next for RevEd?
Edgar Palacios:
Yeah. I think fundamentally as an organization, we are, I’m going to say this out loud, I don’t think I’ve said it out loud yet.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, I’m excited about this. Here we go.
Edgar Palacios:
In some ways, school isn’t the solution but education is. And what I think about is the environment where some of our young people are still having trouble learning, and how is it that we as an organization take responsibility for some of the outcomes of our young people as well? In support of what’s happening within districts and other entities, what is it that we can do to ensure that our young people are going to actually be successful and read and do math and have a little bit of understanding of civics and maybe do some well-rounded kind of arts kind of experiences as well. And I think that as our work continues to evolve, and we still continue to see some of the same academic and experiential outcomes for young Latino students… And in some ways worsen. I just actually last week sat in a data conversation where it was pointed out that Latino students in the greater Kansas City metro area have not recovered as quickly as other subset groups from the pandemic.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, from the pandemic.
Edgar Palacios:
Or academically I should say, and probably social-emotionally as well. What’s our responsibility as an organization to that? And what are the ways that we can actually support our community in helping not just bridging those gaps, but pushing through them and actually growing there. So that’s something that I’m thinking about. I’m in conversations with. If I were naive again, I would just say, “Hey, let’s just start a tutoring program today and figure it out.” I’ve learned that asking more questions from things being applied here from seven years ago when I had an idea to getting to this point where I think it’s a good idea that I have in this moment, but let’s-
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. “Hold on a minute.” You mentioned that earlier when you were talking about the things that you know you don’t know, and not assuming that you know that. That comes back again, again and again. Because smart people know that they don’t know everything. People who aren’t as smart think that they know everything and don’t know that there’s all this gray area and all of these other places where maybe I don’t have all the information. And so taking a moment and going, “Oh, okay, before I go launching into this and starting a new program, let’s take a beat and let’s think about everything that could possibly come up and let’s do a little bit more research.” Yeah.
Edgar Palacios:
And I would also say, I think one of the things that we’ve struggled with over the last couple of years, particularly in the last two years, is actually telling the story of our growth and our evolution. I think in some ways we’ve had our heads down and just doing some of the work and innovating along the way, but I don’t know if we’ve been successful at sharing all of that consistently and effectively. And something that I’m reminded of more now than ever is that I think you assume that people know what you’re doing.
You assume that people know what’s going on, and you assume that you’re also talking to the same people. And what I’m learning is we need to do a better job as an organization to consistently reintroduce our mission, consistently talk about the work that we’re doing, because you never know who’s watching and you never know how long they’ve had a relationship with us. We can be talking to new people, we can be talking to old people. And old, I mean like seasoned LEC kind of community members. And there’s still things that we have to fundamentally, at the baseline say, “here’s what we’re doing.” And so figuring out how to say the message consistently about what is it that we’re trying to accomplish, that’s something that we have to get better at as an organization.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, 100%. And you’re not alone there, whether you’re talking about from the advertising agency standpoint or from an entrepreneur standpoint. We are tired of our own logo. We’ve seen our own content like a million times, and so we get tired of it. But we would be so lucky if everyone else were paying that much attention. Americans have an attention span like a ferret on a double espresso. And so it becomes really difficult for somebody to get that message again and again and again, and absorb it if they have so many other things going on in their lives. And so as a brand, as a brand manager, it becomes important to go, no, I know I’m sick of saying this 32nd elevator pitch, but we have to be able to do that.
Let me take you to the lightning round really quick.
Edgar Palacios:
Awesome.
Jeff Randolph:
Are you ready for the lightning round?
Edgar Palacios:
You know what? Yes.
Jeff Randolph:
Let’s do this. Okay, here we go. What do you do to recharge your batteries after you’ve helped others all day long? You’ve been moving the community forward. How do you reset, how do you recharge?
Edgar Palacios:
Three things that I do. I actually, I love to be on a plane. And so being on a plane, I don’t actually opt into the WiFi, and I pretend that it’s like the late… I don’t know, whatever. And I take whatever hour I can get, or two hours that I can get on a flight to actually journal and think about ideas and to process thoughts. And then I get excited because it helps me envision something different. So I love that. I love going to new destinations and just seeing new things. And so that keeps me pretty energized. I’m going to be a big fan of therapy here. I’m going to shout out therapy because I think being able to process what you’re learning and to be able to manage your emotions in ways that are healthy allow you to continue to do this work in healthy ways as well. And then every once in a while, I love to eat. And so if I have a good meal somewhere, it’s going to just bring me joy and happiness and allow me to get to the next day.
Jeff Randolph:
I’m pivoting exactly off of that comment because the next question is about food. Do you have that desert island kind of meal where if I could eat one thing for the rest of my life, this is exactly what I would eat?
Edgar Palacios:
I’m going to say the less classy answer, then I’m going to give you the classy answer. The less classy answer is it’s going to be Pizza Hut, and it’s going to be stuffed crust pizza. Pepperoni pizza with stuffed crust.
Jeff Randolph:
With stuffed crust. Hey, comfort. Comfort. Is there a classy answer or was that the class? Was that the classy answer?
Edgar Palacios:
I would say that that’s a less classy answer. No shame to Pizza Hut. And by the way, they should sponsor this podcast.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s right.
Edgar Palacios:
The other response is Tannin, which is a restaurant off of like 15th and Walnut, sorry if I messed that up. And the Crossroads, they have a phenomenal Wagyu burger. Pretty inexpensive, comes with great french fries, all of it is just a really great meal. So yeah, I would eat that.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah, that’s a solid answer. That is a solid answer. Let’s talk about advice you might give to another entrepreneur. Say you see a peer and they’re thinking about diving into something that they’re passionate about. What advice would you give to that person?
Edgar Palacios:
Can I pivot that question just a little bit?
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, sure. Sure, sure.
Edgar Palacios:
So I find that a lot of people want to get into the nonprofit space, and I find that people who are maybe thinking about exiting corporate want to go into the nonprofit world. So I have three things that you should do before you ever think about joining nonprofits. One, if you’ve never written a check to a nonprofit, you should consider doing that. Because a lot of the work that happens in nonprofit happens at… You’re not compensated as well for the work that would happen in a corporate environment. So if sometimes you don’t know of what it is to work for free, don’t do that. So write a check first. To serve on a nonprofit board, understand the challenges of an organization. Or three, volunteer. If you’re not willing to give free time to an organization, I don’t know if you need to step into the nonprofit world.
Jeff Randolph:
You may not be ready to run one if you’re not, you know?
Edgar Palacios:
You may not be ready to run one, because like any business, I think you got to figure out how to make things work. And sometimes that requires way more time than other people are willing to give, and it requires less comfortability than other people have. That would be my advice on just in a quick pivot. But if you’re thinking about joining the nonprofit world and thinking it’s just loving and caring and it’s going to fulfill me kind of mission space, no, it’s real work and it’s a real job. And sometimes it’s not as fun or as glorious as it can seem.
Jeff Randolph:
Yes, from the outside where we see just the gloriousness of all of that hard work that you’re doing. Let’s give you the power to change the world for a second. And I’m talking about the way that people think or stigma or whatever. What would you change to make the world a better place?
Edgar Palacios:
I would actually say that you can only change the world if you know how to change yourself. And so I would give the gift to people to be able to process their own things and to work through their own kind of issues and to help them get to a place where they feel comfortable enough to engage in the world in really a positive and healthy way. And so I think one of the hardest things you can do is confront yourself and see yourself and either recognize your flaws or your weaknesses and be willing to say, “Okay, I can see that and I’m going to do better.” And I think if we all did that, I think we would live in a much better world.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s a second shout out for therapy. And a great tip, a great tip. That is solid advice and a great way to change the world.
Edgar Palacios with revedkc.org. Where can people find you? If they need to know more, if they want to write that check and volunteer for a nonprofit before they start one, where can they see you?
Edgar Palacios:
Absolutely. So you can actually follow, we are really present on social. So @R-E-V-E-D-K-C, for RevEd. And @LatinxEDCO, L-A-T-I-N-X-E-D-C-O. If you search one of those handles, whichever social media site of your preference, you will find us. You can go to revedkc.org for our website or latinxedco.org for that website. And then we also have an office at 2203 Lexington Avenue in the Northeast. So PH coffee is right across the street. I’m always willing to buy somebody coffee across the street to come and learn and to learn about our work, but also learn about what they’re doing as well.
Jeff Randolph:
Man, what a great offer to have out there too. Excellent. All right. Edgar Palacios with Revolución Educativa. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Edgar Palacios:
Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate the invitation.
Jeff Randolph:
And that is our show. Thanks to our guest, Edgar Palacios, and thank you for listening to the Small Business Miracles Podcast. Remember to subscribe, give us a five-star rating and review. Drop us a line on the website at E-A-G-A-D-V.com if you have any thoughts. Until then, we’ll be out here helping entrepreneurs with another small business miracle.