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Celeste Carlson used her experience as a program officer for a local community foundation to fuel her consultancy at Growing Good, where she helps nonprofits grow capacity. Listen in for tips about making sure your grant funding matches your organization’s expertise – plus a tip to target your audience after they’ve left the building.
Transcript:
Jeff Randolph:
Welcome to the Small Business Miracles podcast, I’m Jeff Randolph. This Small Business podcast is brought to you by EAG Advertising & Marketing. We’re going to talk about marketing, and we’re also here to celebrate entrepreneurs. We have marketing news and advice business owners can use to keep moving forward.
This week we sit down with Celeste Carlson. She’s the founder of Growing Good, a consulting agency that works to increase nonprofit capacity. But first, we’ve got another small business marketing tip to talk about.
On today’s tip, we’re just going to talk about a tactic that you can use and not everybody knows you can do this. Get your tinfoil hat ready because we’re about to target an audience. Let’s imagine you missed a trade show. Your target audience was there. It was a great show. It’s a shame you can’t put messages in front of them anymore. You missed that opportunity.
Well, now, marketers can look back in time at a place at a time. If your phone was on in that building, we can target you for a few months after that event with a display banner ad campaign. Or let’s imagine you were at American football game in October at Arrowhead Stadium where the Kansas City Chiefs play.
A manufacturer of Chiefs’ flags knows that’s the audience they’re after and can target people who were there that October day between noon and 3:00 and serve some ads to that group to let them know about their Chiefs’ flags. It’s a target-rich environment of people who won’t look at that ad as spam. Work here to find out how they were being targeted.
If it starts your brand working, you could also do that with a competitor location, tinfoil hat engaged. That is your marketing tip for today.
All right. Welcome back to the show. We are talking with Celeste Carlson. She’s the founder of Growing Good, a consulting agency that works to increase nonprofit capacity. Celeste, welcome to the show.
Celeste Carlson:
Thanks. I’m so glad you have me.
Jeff Randolph:
We’re happy to have you. We met at a small business chamber event and said, “We could talk to a lot of people about good governance and stuff.” First, well, tell us about Growing Good and what you do.
Celeste Carlson:
Sure. Just a little bit about our background. I think this might resonate with some of your listeners. We started because of life circumstances. I have a daughter who needs some significant support. We had a house fire that when I was done with the house fire, my employer was ready for me to come back, but my house wasn’t ready for me to live in it.
In order to have the flexibility of time, I was like, “Well, I guess I’m starting my business now.” We started in 2022. My passion is to help as many nonprofits as I can. I could work for a nonprofit, but my passion is more broad than a singular focus.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. Yeah. You have so much more love you could give …
Celeste Carlson:
Exactly.
Jeff Randolph:
… to a bunch of nonprofit clients because you started out in the middle of Kansas and you have moved recently to the Kansas City area. If people don’t know you already, that’s got to be why.
Celeste Carlson:
That’s exactly it. We’re right at a year here in Kansas City and me having my own business allowed me to move, which was fabulous. Last year I’ve been working really hard just to network with people. I’ve been a member of Nonprofit Connect and the Chambers and Central Exchange and different things to be able to get me out there and networking with people.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. Well, let’s talk about some of the work that you do with nonprofits then.
Celeste Carlson:
Okay.
Jeff Randolph:
We’re going to do a deeper dive into board development and training because that’s one of the first things we talked about when we sat down.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes. Thank you.
Jeff Randolph:
What area did nonprofits seem to struggle with the most? What are you bringing to the table when it comes to that?
Celeste Carlson:
Sure. I think that depends on the life cycle of the nonprofit. Newer nonprofits or younger nonprofits are going to be mostly focused on fundraising. More established nonprofits, though fundraising is an element, they’re also really looking for sustainability, which comes from knowledge and expertise of their board members.
Jeff Randolph:
Board members, the human capital side of things.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes. Exactly.
Jeff Randolph:
When you’re working with a nonprofit and helping to develop that board, what kinds of things are you doing? Are you expanding their knowledge? Are you increasing the level of discussion in that board? Are you talking about, “Hey, here’s what the board is supposed to do and talking about board roles?” Where do you focus then?
Celeste Carlson:
Yeah. Yes to all of the above.
Jeff Randolph:
All of those. Check all.
Celeste Carlson:
Where I like to start is I like to survey the board and I begin with their perspective on the strengths and weaknesses of the organization and the board as a whole.
Jeff Randolph:
Board self-assessment kind of stuff.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. Okay.
Celeste Carlson:
But then I take it a step further and I ask them their personal contribution and how they view their personal contribution, strengths and weaknesses on the board. Then I take all of that information, it comes to me directly. It is confidential, so that they don’t have to worry about …
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. The executive director knowing too much …
Celeste Carlson:
Yeah. Exactly.
Jeff Randolph:
… too well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Celeste Carlson:
Yeah. Then I just compile it in such a way that it is kept confidential. Then I build a training that is specific and unique to their needs.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, nice. Yeah.
Celeste Carlson:
There’s a couple of varieties that can happen. One is subject, of course, you can do succession planning or strategic planning or figuring out their roles, how they are supposed to fundraise, relationship building what that looks like and how that leads to fundraising.
Then the other element that is customizable is the delivery. Sometimes they may want a full day of a board retreat and we can do all of it at once, or sometimes they might just want little 20 to 30 minutes snippets at their regularly scheduled board meetings and so it doesn’t take an extra …
Jeff Randolph:
Right. You don’t have to do extra meetings for all of that to happen.
Celeste Carlson:
Right. Yeah. Some people are just so busy that that’s not really a feasible option.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. An executive director can work with you and figure out how do I get my board to be more … I don’t know, a bunch of words we could fill in the blank from here, more active, more focused on mission, or more helpful in a good positive way, any of those things?
Celeste Carlson:
Any of those things. How do I get them to show up? Or if there are times when it’s best to invite a person to vacate their seat.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, yeah.
Celeste Carlson:
How do we have that conversation as well? I mean, that’s important … that’s a hard conversation to have. Yeah. That’s helpful too.
Jeff Randolph:
Coaching them through that difficult sometimes process. Always, that’s an always difficult process. There’s not an easy way to do that. Understanding roles and responsibilities on a nonprofit board can be a real issue. No two boards I’ve seen are exactly the same. No two organizations seem to be in the same place as it relates to where board member work ends and where staff work begins, and all of that.
How does that typical relationship with you start? Does an executive director know that they want their board to go from here to here and engage you to do that? Or do you really help explore that process with an executive director? What does an executive director need to know?
Celeste Carlson:
The executive director needs to know that their board must be in agreement with working with me for it to be a process that actually works.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Board members need to be on the same page. I understand that because when it comes to board members, if your board is butting heads with you as an executive director, you’re in for a short run on this one. This is what we call a resume generating event.
You want to make sure that you are on the same board, you’re on the same page with your board, and you’re moving forward. Best to have that conversation between an executive director and a board before they ever talk to you? Or is it really something … I guess I’m seeing it more from the perspective of I’m an executive director, I’ve got a board that I need to get from point A to point B. You can help me get there.
But before we have the board engaged in, “Hey, do we need to call in some extra help here?” It may be helpful for the executive director to have a conversation with you to say, “Hey, here’s what I’m trying to do. Is that something that you can do? Is that something that … Do you see a path for us? What’s the best way to get started?”
Because then I can see a board member, a board discussion where the executive director is talking to them and saying, “Hey, I’ve identified somebody who can help, but you’ve got to be on the same page with me here. We have to all agree that this is the right path forward so that it’s not just expected to generically come up at a board meeting.”
Celeste Carlson:
Well, not just that, but I mean, I have a teenager and if I tell that teenager, “You need to do this,” then it’s a fight. I think the same happens between CEOs and boards, both directions. You need to do this. I mean, you could meet with some resistance versus if you are talking about … I can help share that language and help offer some guidance on how to have that conversation with your board so that they are able to see the value of the work that I do.
Vice versa, if a board member is talking to me because they’re struggling with their CEO, that is also the reverse can be true too.
Jeff Randolph:
Well, however they get in touch with you, it seems like that’s the right thing for them to do.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes.
Jeff Randolph:
Let me go back in time in the rest of your career because you had a career as a program officer for your local community foundation, which gives you some valuable insight into how nonprofits should approach grant funding. That also, if I pause in the middle of that question for a second, you do offer a lot of grant development work there, right?
Celeste Carlson:
I do. Often that’s how I’m approached. People, organizations often see money as the thing.
Jeff Randolph:
The thing. Sure. For some reason, I don’t know why …
Celeste Carlson:
A couple of things. One, I like to look at it that money isn’t always the issue. I think if you have a strong solid board who is doing their job appropriately and networking and whatever, then money follows. But I also think your question implies that there should be a good fit between an organization asking for funding and the funder who is offering those funds.
I’ve seen many examples where a funder says, “We’re putting out a grant for this.” The organization is like, “Ooh, that’s money. I need to figure out a program so that I can get that funding.”
Jeff Randolph:
I need to develop or create a program to fit that grant. Yeah.
Celeste Carlson:
That is the exact wrong thing to do. Because it can cause mission creep and whatever requirements you have to fulfill that grant after you get it. It’s not free money. There’s usually some kind of reporting or something attached to it. The implication that there needs to be a good fit is absolutely spot on.
I have a couple of tools. One is a database that I have a subscription to that when you hire me, that’s part of what you’re getting is my ability to research these funders.
Jeff Randolph:
To find grants that fit what I’m already doing …
Celeste Carlson:
Exactly. That you don’t …
Jeff Randolph:
… that I don’t have to create some new program to try to fit. Then I’m learning while I go about how to do this program and not being as effective as I could be.
Celeste Carlson:
Right. That’s the first step is just seeing that high-level bird’s eye view if it’s a good fit. Then anything else, grant writing and applying for grants and getting grants is relationship-based.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. Yeah.
Celeste Carlson:
When I go through those profiles, if I find something that is a good fit, the next step is for that organization to reach out to the funder and to build that relationship. As a program officer, it was a lot easier for me to represent an organization when I knew the organization and I knew the program that they were wanting to have funded. I would go to the committee and I could be a good advocate for them when I understood what they were trying to do.
Jeff Randolph:
Right. Right. You also point to the past results to say, “If we put our money as the foundation here into this program, it’s a good investment. We’re going to see actual results from this versus I created this program from scratch just to apply for this grant.”
Celeste Carlson:
Just for you.
Jeff Randolph:
It’s untested. It’s unproven. Yeah. That’s …
Celeste Carlson:
I’ve seen that. That’s hard. I can’t defend that.
Jeff Randolph:
Don’t do that. Don’t do that. But you also do some program development work as part of what you offer. I take it that is well in advance of a grant situation happening.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes. Part of that is, again, it’s about relationships. It’s trying to identify what you’re trying to accomplish with that program and seeing if there are other collaborations that can happen before you even start. That if you’re wanting to offer housing but you don’t have a building, nobody’s going to give you a half a million dollars to buy a building and renovate it to offer housing.
Jeff Randolph:
That eventually when that project gets finished, you’re able to do that.
Celeste Carlson:
Yeah. That once you get started and gain some traction, and then it’s a process. Yeah. I can help you figure out what that timeline might look like and how to build those relationships to make it a feasible program that funders want to fund.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Celeste, I think it’s time to go into the lightning round. Are you ready for the lightning round?
Celeste Carlson:
Okay.
Jeff Randolph:
You have no way to know what I could be asking after this. We’ve talked concept. We know we were going to talk about Growing Good. I think we’ve definitely learned a lot about Growing Good. Thank you for telling us.
Celeste Carlson:
Thank you.
Jeff Randolph:
But now, here we go. Are you ready?
Celeste Carlson:
Yes.
Jeff Randolph:
Let’s do this. Because I know you have been to more than your share of nonprofit fundraising events and dinners and that kind of thing. Complete this sentence, just once, I’d like to attend a nonprofit fundraiser that served this as the main course.
Celeste Carlson:
Tuna tartare.
Jeff Randolph:
Tuna tartare. It’s so far away from nonprofit chicken.
Celeste Carlson:
Exactly.
Jeff Randolph:
That we could definitely have some tuna tartare. You are from McPherson, Kansas. You spent a lot of time in McPherson. The next time that we’re driving by, what restaurant should we all stop at and what are we ordering?
Celeste Carlson:
Well, it’s not a restaurant, but it’s a place that I worked for a while. It’s Three Rings Brewery.
Jeff Randolph:
I saw that on a map. I almost just dove into questions about that. But I would love to hear all about Three Rings Brewery.
Celeste Carlson:
Okay. Full confession. I’m not a beer drinker, typically.
Jeff Randolph:
That’s okay. I am. I’ll carry that weight for all of us.
Celeste Carlson:
Yeah. Well, it was a great job and I loved it. But one of my favorite beers that they have is seasonal, and it’s out every other year. It’s called the Blackbird.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, okay.
Celeste Carlson:
It’s really good. It’s a sour. It’s aged in a whiskey barrel.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, whiskey barrel sour. Fascinating.
Celeste Carlson:
So good. I can’t get enough of it. It’s dangerous. It’s good that they don’t only have it every so often.
Jeff Randolph:
You don’t describe yourself as a beer drinker, but you’re saying this bourbon barrel-aged is sour is one of the go-tos for you. Fascinating.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes. Yes.
Jeff Randolph:
You may have a better palate for this than you think. Think about all the nonprofit organizations out there that are struggling to fulfill mission for whatever reason.
Celeste Carlson:
Okay.
Jeff Randolph:
You get to give a gift to all of them to solve one problem. What problem that nonprofit organizations face would you like to solve for them with just a snap of the fingers? You don’t have to know how to do it. But if you could remove this burden from nonprofits what would you do?
Celeste Carlson:
Oh, that’s a tough question. Well, I think if … I say money isn’t always the only issue. But if that were the thing that were removed from their plate and they could really focus on their mission development and their board development and really just focus on being able to offer their community what they want to offer …
Jeff Randolph:
Focus on the service instead, and providing that thing that they do. If you could just give them all the funding, that would be it and help them communicate as a board. It’s almost like that’s exactly what you tried to develop as you build Growing Good. You’re solving that problem for them. The downside is they have to do some work.
Celeste Carlson:
They do. No.
Jeff Randolph:
You can’t just snap your fingers. That’s a shame. I had like to ask about a model nonprofit organization. Who do you think is crushing it? This can be a national, whatever level. But as a nonprofit, who do you look at and just go, “Man, whatever they’re doing, that’s it. They’re crushing it.”
Celeste Carlson:
Well, I’m going to go back to my roots in McPherson. There was an organization called Steps to End Poverty.
Jeff Randolph:
Okay.
Celeste Carlson:
They hired a young whippersnapper and he did a great job of getting to know us as a funder and the community, and worked really hard to ensure that the people that he was serving, which were people in poverty, were at the table as part of the discussion.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Celeste Carlson:
I mean, even back when this organization started in McPherson, they were really adamant about making sure that those who were being served were those helping make decisions about that service. I think that’s key when you’re trying to help anyone. They need to be a part of the solution.
Jeff Randolph:
Not be opposed to it anyway or resentful that they’re getting this assistance or whatever.
Celeste Carlson:
Right.
Jeff Randolph:
Yeah. No. There are a lot of good examples that live within everything that you just said. I don’t know. Maybe I was thinking when I put that question out that you were going to go with a major international nonprofit or something like that, that was doing all kinds of like, “Hey, Goodwill, they’re really crushing it. We love them.” No. You went even smaller and with a very personal example. That’s well done.
Celeste Carlson:
Thank you.
Jeff Randolph:
How do you celebrate a big win? Let’s imagine that you helped a nonprofit, everything went exactly the way it was supposed to go, and just a giant thing crossed off your to-do list. How do you celebrate that?
Celeste Carlson:
Oh. Well, that’s a good question. The last time I had a big win, I went and bought a new backpack.
Jeff Randolph:
See, everybody has their own thing. Was it just time?
Celeste Carlson:
It was time.
Jeff Randolph:
Did it feel like a splurge?
Celeste Carlson:
Yes. It did. It was a Fossil leather backpack. Yes. It was a splurge. But I made sure that I earned it.
Jeff Randolph:
You earned it. You put it all out there. All right. Celeste Carlson, founder of Growing Good. Where can people find more information? Where can they find you if they want to know more?
Celeste Carlson:
Yeah. My website is growinggoodconsulting.com. I am on LinkedIn, /celeste-carlson. For anybody who mentions that they’ve heard this podcast, I would like to offer a 30% discount and that is good for the rest of 2024.
Jeff Randolph:
Oh, this may be our first offer. This may be our first valuable offer.
Celeste Carlson:
Really?
Jeff Randolph:
I know. Can you imagine that? Nobody said, “Hey, if you do this, you get free,” whatever, ever. No. That’s great. Well done. Well done.
Celeste Carlson:
Thank you.
Jeff Randolph:
We appreciate it. That’ll be good. I hope you get just more work than you can … You can get a number of Fossil backpacks in every color.
Celeste Carlson:
There we go.
Jeff Randolph:
That is what I’m hoping for you. Please help everyone.
Celeste Carlson:
Yes. Please. I need to build my collection.
Jeff Randolph:
All the nonprofits can get board development happening, and it’ll be a much better place. All right. Celeste, thanks for being with us on the podcast today.
Celeste Carlson:
Thank you so much.
Jeff Randolph:
That is our show. Thanks so much to our guest, Celeste Carlson, and thank you for listening to the Small Business Miracles podcast. Remember to subscribe. Leave us a five-star rating and review. Drop us a line on the website at eagadv.com if you have any thoughts. Until then, we’ll be out here helping entrepreneurs with another Small Business Miracle.